Joe sits down with Jeff Christopherson who resides in Ontario, Canada. Jeff is the author of Kingdom Matrix, Kingdom First, and his latest book is called Venal Dogmata: A Parable of the Future Church. He also helps to lead the Send Institute and The Sanctuary Church. They discuss his latest book, lead-in and after COVID-19, what it looks like to be a team led organization based on the APEST model, his latest book and much more.